SD on 19/9/2007 at 17:38
In fairness to BRnumbers, it was a lot clearer before RandomNumbers deleted the post that appeared between yours and his.
Ko0K on 19/9/2007 at 18:02
I've got to say something about deleting posts here.
Don't.
Sure, once in a while you'll say something that you'll look back at in a while and smack your head or wish that you didn't say it. How do you plan to reflect on your past, learn your lessons from it, and grow as a person when you constantly sabotage the record of your own thoughts? You can lie to the others by covering your tracks, but eventually you'll realize that you betrayed your own conscience. I can handle belittling remarks and critical attitudes coming from the others, but that nagging thing in the back of my head is something that I've found to be extremely difficult to ignore. But then again, maybe you don't have any conscience.
demagogue on 19/9/2007 at 18:10
Here's a light article in the NYTimes today ((
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/18/science/18mora.html?pagewanted=1&ei=5087%0A&em&en=6df574f0948f0c22&ex=1190347200) Is ‘Do Unto Others' Written Into Our Genes?)... on the psychological underpinnings for religious, political and moral intuition and behavior, which I've long agreed were all basically part of the same primal behavioral system with a deep evolutionary basis (when social-grouping started becoming important) ... that got a reasoning part tentatively tacked on much later when language came around (the tiny rider on the huge elephant, I like that analogy); that later wants to say that religions, political, and moral are different things for our own purposes. Ostensibly, you'd think it would be deflating to both traditional atheist and believer attitudes: for religious people it really is all in the head and crafted by evolution; for atheists, their basic moral intuitions are basically just like "religious" ones, although they scramble to put them into different words ... all this hoohaw about taking the "rational" high-ground amounts to squat in comparison; at least for "normal" people's behavior.
It's basically the position I've come to researching this sort of stuff on my own (undergrad in cogsci and political theory, and later law and behavior / social-psych at lawschool), although I disagree with some details here and there. Anyway, food for thought.
fett on 19/9/2007 at 18:27
Quote Posted by demagogue
Ostensibly, you'd think it would be deflating to both traditional atheist and believer attitudes: for religious people it really is all in the head and crafted by evolution; for atheists, their basic moral intuitions are basically just like "religious" ones, although they scramble to put them into different words ... all this hoohaw about taking the "rational" high-ground amounts to squat in comparison; at least for "normal" people's behavior.
VERY well said, and I agree 150%.
Shug on 20/9/2007 at 01:45
I'm instating a 10% tithe on all of fett's religious postings for real life discussion :cool:
catbarf on 20/9/2007 at 01:46
I find the Bible rather hard to understand because there are so many contradictions- then I asked myself, 'Why would I believe in this one religion but not all the others, like Buddhism/Islam/etc?'. So I just dropped the whole thing and went with atheism. No churches needed :p
Quote:
Is Jesus God or the Son of God? Yes.
This makes my head hurt...
Quote:
And here, you've hit the nail on the head. These types of emotional experiences take place in every religion, and every non-religion. Combine music, strong emotion, a group sense of belonging, and BINGO. It does something to us. When you combine all that with a very compelling philosophy of love, order in the universe, and eternal life, it's like heroin.
I agree 100%. Organization is a need of our species- through politics, religion, whatever you want- and if religion gives you the solace you need, then go ahead- it's not like you can convince someone deeply-ingrained in their religion otherwise. What I do take offense to is when religion starts influencing other people as well- separation of church and state and the like. Every time I hear Bush say 'God' and 'Iraq' in the same sentence, it makes me cringe. Oh, and one more thing:
For the Christians. Because part of being the most tolerant religion involves sending everyone else to eternal torment :p
SD on 20/9/2007 at 03:25
Quote Posted by catbarf
I asked myself, 'Why would I believe in this one religion but not all the others, like Buddhism/Islam/etc?'. So I just dropped the whole thing and went with atheism.
Exactly. The fundamental killer point true believers miss when they try to undermine the atheist position is that they are all atheists themselves about every other religion in existence - we just go one god further than they do.
AxTng1 on 20/9/2007 at 03:32
So possibly this is not the time/place for religious debate/point-scoring... so where is the place? I just thought of something clever and want to share :cool:
37637598 on 20/9/2007 at 03:33
Quote Posted by SD
In fairness to BRnumbers, it
was a lot clearer before RandomNumbers deleted the post that appeared between yours and his.
WHAT POST? I never deleted a post!?!?! I edited one saying (bad idea) if thats what your talking about, but never have I deleted one.
Fett, you're 100% right in all you've said and i'm stupid. I don't go to church and I'm not a christain, but I am watching a really shitty movie right now. I just like to argue about things I don't understand so I can learn about it (whatever it is). Thats why I come across as such a dumb ass.
37637598 on 20/9/2007 at 03:49
Quote Posted by 37637598
WHAT POST? I never deleted a post!?!?! I edited one saying (bad idea) if thats what your talking about, but never have I deleted one.
Fett, you're 100% right in all you've said and i'm stupid. I don't go to church and I'm not a christain, but I am watching a really shitty movie right now. I just like to argue about things I don't understand so I can learn about it (whatever it is). Thats why I come across as such a dumb ass.
See, he admitted, he doesn't know anything. Idiot. You're wasting all of our time and insult our intelligence by seeming like you know anything at all but really you don't. Then you try to make it all 'fine' by saying that your a dumbass. Then you try to make it all fine AGAIN by posting insulting replies about yourself and make yourself look like even more of a dumbass. You are a dumbass. Leave.
Ok sorry everyone, he left. I hate when he uses my account to post stupid random shit.
