Fingernail on 18/9/2007 at 10:10
yeah, Jesus must be spinning in his grave over all the shit that's done in his name!
Rogue Keeper on 18/9/2007 at 10:12
What about the nuns who care about the old, lone and poor?
fett on 18/9/2007 at 12:42
Quote Posted by SD
Was there ever any other point to organised religion than money, power and control?
The biggest irony of the lot is that Jesus was killed for challenging this hegemony, yet the religion that was founded in his name is the worst of the lot.
I think that's a bit of an overstatement SD. While I am opposed to the majority of what Christianity stands for, I have to admit that they respond in huge numbers when there are world crisis. When I was in Thailand and Louisiana following the natural disasters a few years ago, you couldn't fart without hitting a Christian relief worker. The vast majority weren't there to build churches or evangelize; they were the guys pulling trees out of houses, rebuilding places, and feeding everyone. The camp I stayed at in Mississippi had roughly 40,000 Christians pass through to help in a 6 month period. They were there long after Red Cross, Civitan, and FEMA had done their showboating and called it a day.
It's been that way historically as well. We bang on about the Crusades and such, but nobody ever talks about St. Francis and others whose entire lives were given to helping people just for the sake of helping them - not to get a bigger offering.
That's what makes it tough for Christians on the 'inside' to see the fallacies. Most Christians learn to ignore the idiots on TV and such, and it's easy to do because you are in contact with large numbers of people who
are actually feeding the hungry, clothing the poor, etc. It's part of what sucked me in.
I admit Christianity IS the worst of the lot, but it's also the best in many ways. Some of what they do is done to bump numbers, proselytize, etc. but the majority of what I saw was people simply wanting to help others. Whether it's because of 'god' or just that they were nice people to begin with, I can't say.
SD on 18/9/2007 at 14:01
Quote Posted by fett
Whether it's because of 'god' or just that they were nice people to begin with, I can't say.
The latter I would hope. If you're helping people because you think it's what a vengeful God wants you to do, rather than out of basic human decency, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. In fact, if you need God to inspire you to do the right thing, then you're probably a pretty callous person.
Anyway, I was really talking about people in the Christian hierarchy, rather than footsoldiers on the ground. They're the ones who are in it for the power and the glory.
the_grip on 18/9/2007 at 14:20
Quote Posted by SD
The latter I would hope. If you're helping people because you think it's what a vengeful God wants you to do, rather than out of basic human decency, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. In fact, if you need God to inspire you to do the right thing, then you're probably a pretty callous person.
Anyway, I was really talking about people in the Christian hierarchy, rather than footsoldiers on the ground. They're the ones who are in it for the power and the glory.
SD, i don't want to argue, but i don't think you are really painting a realistic picture here. Most Christians don't see God as vengeful - the whole idea of helping others is based on the fact that God is love. That's more of a Christian sentiment. The whole vengeful God thing really does not speak to what the large majority of Christians believe about God or what they say about him.
Regarding the Christian hierarchy, which folks are you referring to? Mother Teresa? Pope Benedict? Or are you talking about folks that get on TV, screw up their faces, and make a really sad show for something else or the other? Keep in mind that there are a huge number of Christians, and not every misconstrument of the Christian faith means that is what all of Christianity is all about.
Rogue Keeper on 18/9/2007 at 14:22
But then saying "I am compelled by God to help these people" sounds quite humble and devotional, while saying "I'm compelled by my good heart to help these people" would sound quite egomaniacal and dorky.
Chimpy Chompy on 18/9/2007 at 14:24
Well ideally people wouldn't talk about how good their hearts are, just get on with it.
Also "humble and devotional" doesn't imply good deeds. You could humbly and devotionally follow an evil god who demands the kicking of puppies.
scumble on 18/9/2007 at 14:26
It occurred to me the other day that what Christians benefit from is a community in a society where people are increasingly isolated. This is, in essence, not much different from belonging to a club of like-minded people. Also, I reckon all the singing, hands in the air stuff provides a bit of a release of expression where it wouldn't normally be appropriate. This isn't much different from going crazy at a rock concert.
Rogue Keeper on 18/9/2007 at 14:35
All this visible Christian stuff, clergy in gold capes, fake happy conventions led by TV Guru priests, is just a part of media front end of Christianity, just like pop-rock concerts are just a part of media frontend of the rock scene.
There is much thought, difference of concepts and taste in the backround of both groups. Just like many "indie" rockers don't like the frontend rocks stuff, many Christians may dislike being part of the aforementioned frontend of Christianity as well.
37637598 on 18/9/2007 at 15:49
From what i've seen, Christianity is extremley corrupt from it's origion. I was in Wal-Mart the other day and there was this man and his daughter in there. The daughter (about 7 or 8) was pretending to be a chicken; clucking and doing the wing thing with her arms... Her father said angerly, "You're making noises that don't need to be made. What would God say?"
HE'D SAY PLAY HUMAN, PLAY AND HAVE FUN in this amazing world i've created!!! PLAY DAMMIT! That kinda really pissed me off. People who are impatient with their children can all go to Hell as far as i'm concerned.
And I see nothing wrong with christians doing business with eachother, but if you want to spread the word, do business with the gothic kid down the street. Why do christians feel that god wants their children to shut up when they're loud, or why god cares what clothes they're wearing, or how cleanly or sloppily they eat? That's all part of christianity though, from what I've seen anyway. It's not about god, most people at any church here can probably recite 1 or 2 really popular passages from the bible, but that doesn't even matter because you don't need the bible or knowledge of the bible to be a true christian.
And wtf, do christians really even know what god is? or who jesus was?
They always say "God is the lord, God is light, God is peace, God is love, then they say "Jesus is god". Then they say Jesus is god's son. Then they say Mary was god's wife or he just had a one night stand or something along those lines...
Now look over all that and tell me how it can make sense, or just correct me if i'm wrong. (spelling not included)
