*Zaccheus* on 15/9/2007 at 08:55
Quote Posted by Gingerbread Man
I'd still like to hear a Christian explain to me how they would know God if not for the Bible.
I'm sure this has been covered several times but was (understandably) dismissed as subjective.
Quote Posted by Gingerbread Man
Because at some level it seems it all boils down to faith in the complete (or near-complete) veracity of a book which is accepted to have been written by several people over many years, and which has been translated back and forth dozens of times.
I really don't see a problem with 'several people over many years', and as Fett has probably pointed out, we can go back to very early copies of the NT texts. While that does not prove that these writing are 'the word of God', it does make it relatively unlikely that the original NT writings were corrupted in any big way.
Quote Posted by Kolya
If you start to occupy yourself with religion, if you read the same shit in hundreds of variations again and again, then yes, no matter how atheistic you are, you start to think there might be something to it, you start to believe.
That is true of anything. If people tell you again and again that there is no god then you also start to believe that. If you hear ANY message again and again you will start to accept it as a possibility. It is how our brain works. It's how advertising works. It's how political propaganda works. Oh look, we're back to 9/11 again !!
:D
Turtle on 15/9/2007 at 17:58
Quote Posted by *Zaccheus*
I'm sure this has been covered several times but was (understandably) dismissed as subjective.
I disagree. It's a very reasonable question. If you were raised by wolves, or whatever, and had no contact with religion, how would you come to believe in a god?
heretic on 15/9/2007 at 18:08
Quote Posted by Turtle
I disagree. It's a very reasonable question. If you were raised by wolves, or whatever, and had no contact with religion, how would you come to believe in a god?
The same way the cro-mags did, likley through some odd gray-matter induced need. I certainly don't know of any primitive athiests, nor can I imagine any.
*Zaccheus* on 15/9/2007 at 19:18
Quote Posted by Turtle
I disagree. It's a very reasonable question.
Yes, of course it's a reasonable question.
I didn't word that very well, did I; the answers were dismissed as subjective, not the question.
Quote Posted by Turtle
If you were raised by wolves, or whatever, and had no contact with religion, how would you come to believe in a god?
There are three possibilities I can see:
1) Speculation - you might wonder how this world came into being and imagine some giant made it all.
2) Deception - some mischievous spirit(s) could play a trick on you. Or your own mind could do the same.
3) A genuine personal revelation - God might plant the knowledge of his existence in your mind.
If you are asking how we might know the difference, I'd suggest it is like asking how you know that you are awake. Even though in a dream you sometimes think you know you are awake, when you do wake up you know you are awake. I know that does not sound very convincing, but it's the best analogy I can think of right now.
Gingerbread Man on 16/9/2007 at 00:37
Yeah, but you see, it's the subjective experience of God that I find interesting (and possibly the only "real" thing about faith in general)... I'm talking about a full-on Jules Winnfield moment. Obviously in the absence of structured religion it wouldn't be possible for someone to ascribe whatever they're feeling to the influence of Jaweh or Allah or Jesus or whoever, but I guess it's the idea of revelation or enlightenment or conversion that I'm fascinated with.
Perhaps it's just a leak-through from my psych stuff, and perhaps I'm really only interested in it in a similar way to the onset of metal disorders (not that I mean to imply that religious thought is necessarily delusional or abnormal etc), but it does intrigue me nonetheless.
Turtle on 16/9/2007 at 02:24
Quote Posted by Gingerbread Man
...the onset of metal disorders...
\m/
SubJeff on 16/9/2007 at 02:43
Quote Posted by Gingerbread Man
onset of metal disorders
Someone been watching Tetsuo: BODY HAMMER again? :p
Gingerbread Man on 16/9/2007 at 04:07
I'M A GROWN UP I CAN SAY WHAT I WANT :mad:
lol metal disorders
\m/:grr:\m/
Koki on 16/9/2007 at 09:06
Damn I missed a shitstorm :/
Mr.Duck on 16/9/2007 at 19:00
Stick around and poke some eyeballs, you're lightly to get caught in the shit maelstrom or at least get an eye gouged out. :)
