the_grip on 12/9/2007 at 17:42
i would echo The_Raven's comments regarding evolution, chance, etc. i also don't claim to know how God would work with evolution - i simply see truths in religion and truths in science, and i don't see a reason to keep the two mutually exclusive. Hey, if it is truth, it is truth, and, if God is real, then presumably God designed that truth even if it doesn't make everyone's thoughts about God line up like little ducks in a row.
Regarding Genesis, i would say that the whole creation account is a mythical account of a much deeper spiritual reality (by the word "myth" i don't mean to imply that it is a made up story - what i mean is a classical meaning along the lines of it being a symbolic representation of much deeper truths). In other words, the Adam and Eve story is all about portraying a picture of spiritual devolvement - disintegration from integration, disunity from unity, selfishness from selflessness, pride replacing love, etc. etc. In many ways, it is a picture that can be applied to a myriad of realities that many folks experiences in their own life.
Of course, i don't have a problem with the concept of God, spirituality, faiths, beliefs, etc. etc., so i can accept this and presume that i gain from it personally. Many folks who either don't really buy into these ideas or don't like them won't agree, and that's cool... i'm not about trying to convince anyone to see it this way. i just personally find that this perspective gives it its truest meaning, if that makes sense, and i personally derive greater insight from it.
Anyways, i'll switch off the "On Air" light on my soapbox now.
Stitch on 12/9/2007 at 18:41
Quote Posted by BR796164
WBut judging by the level of sofphistication of the nature and biology of living organisms, it seems to me that the human being, nature on Earth and the universe in general, is way too perfectly functioning system, for a spontaneous "accidental" development.
On second thought, I can't really leave this statement well enough alone. It's a very stupid belief, and stupid beliefs create stupid people, and stupid people post on my internet, and I'm afraid that simply won't do.
It's a stupid belief because it ignores that evolution is by definition an ongoing process of adaptation. The system is functioning "perfectly," as you put it, because if something is out of whack it either adapts to survive or dies off. That's evolution, no hand of god needed. Additionally, citing the perfection of the state of the system as proof of god shows a distinct lack of perspective. Is the system really perfect or is it merely
what we know?Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against the existence of god. You can posit that he set up the works and is watching it unfold, or that he's micromanaging everything down to the last chipmunk nuthair, or even that you simply don't know, but to view the concept of "reality's perfection as proof of god" as anything other than whimsical fantasy is absurd.
catbarf on 12/9/2007 at 19:16
Just curious, coming from an atheist family, what do Christians make of the contradictions in the Bible? Or Evolution?
It seems weird to me that you'd follow both the Bible and Evolution as well... I mean, that's saying that a flawless, immortal being was totally wrong or was lying :p
And what about the age of the Earth...? These things seem to contradict each other.
Not trying to flame, just curious.
Stitch on 12/9/2007 at 19:18
oh yeah let's get this thing GOING
Thief13x on 12/9/2007 at 19:23
usually I try not to be narrow-minded, but I beleive that you really have to decide for yourself whether the bible is bullshit, or whether it is the word of god and your eternal destination depends on it.
I have never understood the people that go 50/50 on the issue. I suspect alot of people don't beleive most of the bible, but like to think that there is a heaven and hell, because, it is kinda depressing to think that this is all there will ever be.
Spaztick on 12/9/2007 at 19:28
Quote Posted by catbarf
Just curious, coming from an atheist family, what do Christians make of the contradictions in the Bible? Or Evolution?
It seems weird to me that you'd follow both the Bible and Evolution as well... I mean, that's saying that a flawless, immortal being was totally wrong or was lying :p
And what about the age of the Earth...? These things seem to contradict each other.
Not trying to flame, just curious.
I actually addressed the whole age of the earth issue in my previous post. That book covers quite a bit actually, but I'd probably get flamed for posting chapters of the stuff (essentially stealing the guy's intellectual property).
The_Raven on 12/9/2007 at 19:56
Quote Posted by Vivian
And the nature of the external environment is largely random, or at least operating under an arbitrary system of rules of its own.
The later is what I was aiming for. I, personally, have a tendency to not so much as think of things as random; but as an erratic pattern that is, almost always, influenced by complicated external forces. That doesn't mean that all possibilities have an equal probability of happening, more or less how I define random, but that could be the case depending on what you're talking about. For the record, I'm atheist. That thing about GOD was a stab at humor -I knew I should have used smilies.
Moi Dix Mois on 12/9/2007 at 19:57
The only way anything good can come from this thread now is if fett starts posting.
SD on 12/9/2007 at 19:58
Quote Posted by Stitch
Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing against the existence of god.
Isn't evolution itself an implicit argument against the existence of God though? I mean, if we accept that evolution by natural selection, where individuals inherit characteristics that give them a survival and reproductive advantage in their local environments, is the one and only way in which higher intelligences arise, then the whole idea that a supra-human intelligence capable of creating universes appeared one day out of nothing is just a little far-fetched.
