9/11 th - TTLG Forums

Rogue Keeper on 12/9/2007 at 16:01

There would be nothing wrong on a thought that the evolution has been programmed by higher cosmic principe (God).

But more it's like that inspiration by life, deeds and preaching of Christ doesn't contradict the evolution theory.

fett on 12/9/2007 at 16:04

Quote Posted by Dia

Antigua
Barbuda
Argentina
Armenia
Australia
Austria
Azerbaijan
Bangladesh
Barbados
Belarus
Belgium
Belize
Bolivia
Brazil
Canada
Chile
China
Colombia
Côte d' Ivoire
Cuba
Cyprus
Czech Republic
Dominica
Dominican
Republic
Ecuador
Egypt
El Salvador
Ethiopia
France
The Gambia
Georgia
Germany
Ghana
Greece
Grenada
Guatemala
Guyana
Haiti
Honduras
India
Indonesia
Iran
Ireland
Israel
Italy
Jamaica
Japan
Jordan
Kazakhstan
Kenya
Lebanon
Liberia
Lithuania
Malaysia
Mali
Mexico
Moldova
Netherlands
New Zealand
Nigeria
Pakistan
Panama
Paraguay
Peru
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Russia
Saint Lucia
Saint Vincent and
the Grenadines
South Africa
South Korea
Spain
Sri Lanka
Sweden
Switzerland
Syria
Thailand
Togo
Trinidad and
Tobago
Turkey
United Kingdom
Ukraine
Uruguay
Uzbekistan
Venezuela
Vietnam
Yemen
The Countries of
the Former
Yugoslavia
Zambia

I've never visited or bought electronics from any of those countries so they don't count. And who the fuck do Saint Vincent and the Grenadines think they are trying to cut in on my grief? Bastards.

Vivian on 12/9/2007 at 16:06

Ah, so you think evolutionary history is not really evolutionary history, it's just a history of morphological change and species genesis according to gods plans?
Or, more importantly, that how Life as an ongoing biological process works has little to do with how we should act towards each other? Fair enough, I can respect that.

Rogue Keeper on 12/9/2007 at 16:13

Quote Posted by Vivian

Well I don't have a clue about whether God has guided the evolution from the beginning to the end (and I don't believe Homo Sapiens would be the ultimate end in the chain of evolution of hominides, but now the mankind has it's destiny in it's own hands, to large measure), or whether God just sparkled the evolution at the beginning, and now he/she/it/they watches how it will develops. But judging by the level of sofphistication of the nature and biology of living organisms, it seems to me that the human being, nature on Earth and the universe in general, is way too perfectly functioning system, for a spontaneous "accidental" development. If "accidents" aren't creation of an intelligent mind, too.

Vivian on 12/9/2007 at 16:21

Ok, but how would biological systems exist unless they functioned well? If you believe that it's all chance (as most people studying it do - if you remove the chance bit I'm not sure you can technically call it evolution, just change), then the evolution of 'perfectly functioning' biological systems by chance is completely logical - those that don't function don't survive, so generally only the beneficial random changes are maintained.

Is this getting off topic?

Spaztick on 12/9/2007 at 16:45

Quote Posted by Vivian

That's interesting. What do you believe, that gods role in the evolution of Life was limited to fiddling with the environment? Or do you believe that god had no part in the development of Life at all?

I've always been able to identify most with theists who believe that god set up the universe's initial conditions then sat back to enjoy the consequences.

I would actually recommend Shroeder's book The Science of God, it takes scientific inquiry and ancient text (mostly biblical), and fills in the holes between scientific evidence and biblical evidence. For example, the difference between scholars arguing the Earth being "6 days and a few thousand years" old and the scientific dating for "15 billion years" old is explained through quantum relativity and the red-phase shift of cosmic background radiation.

Stitch on 12/9/2007 at 16:46

Quote Posted by BR796164

But judging by the level of sofphistication of the nature and biology of living organisms, it seems to me that the human being, nature on Earth and the universe in general, is way too perfectly functioning system, for a spontaneous "accidental" development.

have you fucking seen a platypus

rachel on 12/9/2007 at 16:53

So we'll integrate non-progressional evolution theory with God's creation of Eden. 11 inherent metaphoric parallels already there. Eleven. Important number. Prime number. One goes into the house of eleven eleven times, but always comes out one.

The_Raven on 12/9/2007 at 17:00

I think I have a transcript of the creation of the Earth.

GOD: Behold, I have created the Earth, and Life.
Narrator: And on the seventh day.
GOD: Now, it is time to enjoy the fruits of my labor....FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!

EDIT: This can be best seen in GOD's children's desire to built robots for the purpose of fighting one another.

Also, the description "random chance" is a bit of an oversimplification. Evolution is a very well ordered system, and things happened at the right time in the right environment. Once that ball starts rolling, we have a pretty good understanding of how it went from there. That's not to say we have some pretty good theories of how it started: materials from the sun blown off into space, primordial ooze and all that. In the wise words of Douglas Adams, "Life will cling to just about anything."

Vivian on 12/9/2007 at 17:37

How does your 'right time, right environment' differ from my 'random chance'? Variability is mutation and mutation is random within its delimitations, evolution is billed as the non-random survival to reproduction of randomly variable individuals, so you do get a kind of order or trends building up as the population optimises towards whatever conditions determine survival. But if you don't believe that god set the survival conditions according to some agenda then the only factor guiding evolution is a potentially lethal environment. And the nature of the external environment is largely random, or at least operating under an arbitrary system of rules of its own.

That book does sound interesting, Spaztick - is it mainly accomodation, or does the guy remain objective?