Ulukai on 26/3/2010 at 14:29
It smells bloody awful and it's not something I want to be partaking in ever again. However, other people do and that's up to them.
So I'm leaning towards yes, as long as similar penalties are in place for people who drive whilst stoned as those who drive whilst over the drink drive limit, and people are made aware of the health risks.
Also, as a form of smoking, it's not something I want to be around when I'm in a restaurant etc. either. So keep it in your own home.
Let's face it, if alcohol were suddenly discovered in the 21st century there's no chance it'd be legal. Yet enjoyed responsibly, it's one of life's little pleasures. Personally, I'll stick to my Guinness :cool:
witherflower on 26/3/2010 at 14:34
Quote Posted by gunsmoke
*Laughs*
Yeah, it can be bad, but to say it is worse than shooting boy and/or girl, or smoking crack? Have you ever done it or been closely tied to huge numbers of people who have? Rehab maybe? Been in the hospital being pulled from death? Thought not.
Liver damage is far more common in I.V. drug users (usually Hep. C), and every time you take a huge blast of the white shit, it is as devastating as a mini heart attack.
That said, I'd vote for Legalizing it, but I only fuck with the stuff every blue moon. I go years and years without it.
Actually I have been closely connected to huge numbers of people who have. Dj_ivocha was right. I meant destruction way beyond that of one individual. And most of the damage caused by other drugs stems from the fact that they are not legal. One has to resort to dodgy means both when aqcuiring and getting it in to ones system which will lead to all sorts of uneccessary suffering for both the drug user and and people outside. If the illegality was eliminated all you'd be left with was whatever damage happens to the one individual (and obviously their next of kin). But they've chosen and there's not a lot to do about that.
Alcohol, however, is legal and still causes deaths, traumatized spouses, children, physical and psychological injuries etc despite its legality. It's poison and it spreads. It's only legal because someone said to be of devine heiretage allegedly turned water into wine.
Fingernail on 26/3/2010 at 14:48
I've seen several people turn into useless underachieving sloths due to its overuse, but that's almost no different to so-called "videogame addiction" or indeed any number of social malaises, and it could well be linked to underlying depression or other issues, so really, I don't see why it can't be legal along the same lines as alcohol. I haven't known/had to deal with any alcoholics, so I can't say if it's better or worse from personal experience.
Kolya on 26/3/2010 at 14:48
Quote Posted by SD
You got a peer-reviewed paper on that?
Thank you Bob, I think my post made it quite clear how I came to this conclusion. I'd argue that cannabis forwards overly introspective and subjective thinking, which can be quite enough to lead an unstable mind over the cliffs, especially when (mis)used daily over a long time.
CCCToad on 26/3/2010 at 14:57
Quote Posted by demagogue
I'm also still on this idea that a lot of big problems are cultural (parents not raising their kids to be responsible or people not thinking they're expected to make rational arguments), and I fit "vice" kind of stuff in there too ... pot, alcohol, smoking, guns (to an lesser extent). The first line of defense is raising people to be sensible and smart about it and not going ape-shit overboard just because they can. I liked in Europe people could just have a little wine for dinner and it's no big deal, whereas in America there's simultaneously either this paranoid abhorrence of teenage drinking or an expectation to go binge-drinking every weekend... FFS, just have a beer or two, enjoy life, and no need for such extremes. And I guess that thinking informs what I think about mj, although it wasn't around my world much so I never had much of an opinion about it.
That kinda reminds me a of a story one Uni Professor told about his wedding, in which he wanted to have an open bar for his friends from the North but the bride's father was adamantly opposed to it. In the end, they reached the compromise of allowing him to pay for it himself, but a curious thing happened: none of the southerners attending the wedding used the open bar, but he noticed them becoming increasingly intoxicated as the night progressed. It turned out that all had coolers full of beer in the back of their cars, and for whatever reason refused to use the open bar. Makes no sense, as they could have gotten free (and presumably higher quality) alcohol from there. My hypothesis is that its a function of shame: they didn't want to be seen consuming alcohol in front of others because of the social stigma against it.
SD on 26/3/2010 at 15:14
Quote Posted by Kolya
Thank you Bob, I think my post made it quite clear how I came to this conclusion.
Oh, you did, I was just checking to see if personal anecdotal experience was the extent of the evidence you had for your stance.
And since the psychological problems alleged to be linked to the use of stronger strains of cannabis (such as schizophrenia) have remained stable over time, I'm going to dismiss your claimed cause as fiction. Hope this is okay.
Quote Posted by Kolya
I'd argue that cannabis forwards overly introspective and subjective thinking, which can be quite enough to lead an unstable mind over the cliffs, especially when (mis)used daily over a long time.
Got a peer-reviewed paper on that? ;)
CCCToad on 26/3/2010 at 15:25
I do have a relative that has worked in the medical field (specializing in addiction) since the 80's, and he has told me that Marijuana is an unusual drug because there is still a lot we don't understand about how Weed affects long-term users.
SD on 26/3/2010 at 15:32
Hmm, I would find that a little hard to believe, since people have been using it for thousands of years.
In any case, I find all the arguments about health effects to be something of a red herring in these debates. Whether it's more or less harmful than alcohol or tobacco is irrelevant if you believe, as I do, that individuals should have sovereignty over their own bodies.
scumble on 26/3/2010 at 15:36
Just because some people overuse cannabis is not a reason for it to remain illegal. An Economist article I read recently took the stance that Legalisation was the "least bad" option using a number of utilitarian arguments - use tax revenue to fund treatment (Faf's example), easier to monitor usage/sales, eliminate revenue stream for drug gangs, avoid goverment spending on enforcement. The last one is a good point as masses of people in the US prison system have been beaten up by SWAT teams and got silly sentences for growing a plant - as if they were hardened dealers. The ratcheting up of the drug war has led to masses of social damage.
Rug Burn Junky on 26/3/2010 at 15:37
The biggest problem with weed is that the uptight sanctimonious twats who need it most are exactly the type who never smoke it.
