2008 TTLG Mock presidential election. Poll included - by io organic industrialism
jay pettitt on 10/10/2008 at 00:24
Quote Posted by CaptSyn
There's nothing to continue discussing. I have my opinions and you have yours. Nothing we say to each other will change those opinions.
Oh, I'm happy to change my opinions so they fit with the things I learn about the world - they're not fixed and I'm not inclined to hide behind them. I enjoy being wrong, or at least I like the moment of realisation when I come across a better way of thinking about things - it's why I like clever people. Here's (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1776299#post1776299) my opinion about the 2nd debate between Obama and McCain: I thought McCain set the tone and Obama struggled. (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1776311#post1776311) Bear disagreed and on reflection I thought he might have a point. (
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1776331#post1776331) Starr provides some numbers that show how utterly awry I was and I have to accept I just judged the thing badly.
Opinions are points of view about things that can't be verified. You can verify Obama's (
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html) nationality, it's not a matter of personal opinion.
I suppose it's harder to verify absolutely whether or not Obama developed 'links' to terrorists as a small child in Indonesia; but it's a pretty wild claim. We're talking about the end of the 1960s here: it wasn't all that unusual for westerners to go live and work in North Africa or Eastern Europe and Asia or travel on the hippy trail, that was just part of the brave new world and it was at least a full decade before Islam started to become politicised. You said it is fact that Obama's step father had close associations with known terrorists, yet I can't find a single verifiable claim to that effect, let alone reason to link them to Barrack. Every biography of Lolo paints him as a moderate guy with a pro western outlook. The only notable 'terrorism' in the country at the time was an American backed military coup that overthrew a communist leaning government and a witch hunt of communist sympathisers. It's possible I suppose that Lolo was sympathetic to the US and could be linked somehow to anti-communist activity, but even if that were true I don't see the relevance or any possible association with radical islamic terrorists (time traveling ones at that). Laplace's principle tells us that The weight of evidence for an extraordinary claim must be proportioned to its strangeness. So I'm wondering how weighty your 'facts' are and if they're not, whether it's a good idea to defend them so readily.
SD on 10/10/2008 at 00:25
Quote Posted by CaptSyn
It's still not even known for sure if Obama is a natural born American citizen, and if he isn't, then he can't be President.
No, it
is known that he's a natural born citizen. He was born in Hawaii, he has a birth certificate and everything.
What you mean to say is that
you don't know if he's a natural born American citizen, which is a whole other kettle of fish altogether - one which points less toward obfuscation on the part of Obama, and more toward you being an ignoramus.
In fact, it's actually (
http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/citizen.asp) John McCain over whom the question of natural born citizenship isn't fully resolved, born, as he was, in the Panama Canal Zone to American parents
before the act that automatically conferred American citizenship on children born to Americans in the Canal Zone.
Still, why let facts get in the way of a good smear!
Turtle on 10/10/2008 at 02:31
Stronts, when did you become likable?
Starrfall on 10/10/2008 at 02:39
I can't credit those sources. And I really tried. But it's the combination of every Obama rumor turning out to be pretty much nonsense, and the conservative/tabloid bent of those three. The fact that all conservative swiftboats appear to be GO in panic at McCain's miserable numbers and Obama's growing popularity doesn't help.
But I think at this point I wouldn't credit the Liberal Daily Press until the story got a good airing out to make sure it's not just more nonsense.
(And to be honest, I think there's already stuff in the Post piece that looks like bullshit: trying to get army leaders to suggest a realistic withdrawal date is not only not concerning, it sounds like there's a good chance he was seeking opinions from the dudes who are supposed to be experts.)
fett on 10/10/2008 at 02:45
Quote Posted by SD
No, it
is known that he's a natural born citizen. He was born in Hawaii, he has a birth certificate and everything.
What you mean to say is that
you don't know if he's a natural born American citizen, which is a whole other kettle of fish altogether - one which points less toward obfuscation on the part of Obama, and more toward you being an ignoramus.
In fact, it's actually (
http://www.snopes.com/politics/mccain/citizen.asp) John McCain over whom the question of natural born citizenship isn't fully resolved, born, as he was, in the Panama Canal Zone to American parents
before the act that automatically conferred American citizenship on children born to Americans in the Canal Zone.
Still, why let facts get in the way of a good smear!
Nice.
Shug on 10/10/2008 at 03:27
Quote Posted by Starrfall
I'd also like to ask how Obama can be a muslim communist radical christian who believes in black liberation theology all at the same time.
When John McCain comes into power, you terrorist sympathizers better watch out
BEAR on 10/10/2008 at 04:29
I think a lot of people never realized that was an option, aren't they going to feel stupid.
Wow, someones got to get the word out about this! This should be on all the major news outlets! This is just another example of the vast left wing conspiracy trying to keep the truth hidden. Also did you guys (
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VG0fu2YXeKA) hear about this? God when will all these STUPID people catch on to whats happening JEEZ.
